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 Drumcashlagh help
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tkelly5 Member Posts: 7 |
posted 29 January 2008 10:50 PM
  
Hello Folks, great site. I have been trying to piece together the meaning and correct Irish spelling of this townland, which sits off of 280 North of Drumkeeran next to Belhavel Lough. Was wondering your thoughs and correct spellings? the area is a ridge, hilly, and there are several ruins of Circular Forts that are on each side of this townland. Here is the paragraph I am trying to include in my family history book. There is a whole group of historians that specialize in recording the Irish “Place-names” for posterity, as most townlands that came from Irish origin were anglicized to some extent as the English began to supplant the Irish written and spoken word. In the Ordinance Map above from 1840, one may see noted several ruined celtic ring forts, such as in the neighboring townland of Cloonagh. <Drumcashlagh most probably means “Ridge of the Ring Fort(s) ” deriving from the Irish words Droim (Ridge, Hillock) and Caiseal (circular forts) and when put together correctly spelled would be “Droim hCaisealach”> Thanks, I appreciate the help. Feel free to add this in your Placename web site as well! Tom IP: Logged |
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enfield Moderator Posts: 483 |
posted 30 January 2008 10:11 AM
Drum, droim, droimne, druim, dhroim, droma, dromainne, dhroma, dromann, a ridge, a ridge of hills, a long hill or a long low hill. I have never seen the Anglicized word Cashlagh (Caisleach) in any reference books to mean ring forts. I have found it to mean stone forts though. I would be very interested in which reference book it says they are ring forts. The word hCaisealach does not exist in Irish. Regards. Tom. IP: Logged |
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tkelly5 Member Posts: 7 |
posted 30 January 2008 10:57 AM
quote: Thanks, I was talking to a native Dubliner who speaks Irish daily, and she guided me over the phone. we all agreeed on Droim. She said Caislean (Fada-2nd a) was castle. then she said she thought it would change when put together with Droim. Droimcaisleach. she said the "h" was a maybe. Then I found this link that had your site on it, as well as caiseal=circular fort= Cashel http://www.dublin1850.com/general/placenames.html Any thoughts? IP: Logged |
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enfield Moderator Posts: 483 |
posted 30 January 2008 01:07 PM
Sorry there young fella I have nothing further to add. Enjoy your speculative conversations. Regards. Tom.(also a native Dubliner) IP: Logged |
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tkelly5 Member Posts: 7 |
posted 30 January 2008 06:23 PM
thanks for the reply tom, do you have a guess what "cashlagh" could be? Thanks, tom IP: Logged |
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enfield Moderator Posts: 483 |
posted 30 January 2008 07:12 PM
The only Cashlagh that has been used in Irish placenames is as I posted. Regards. Tom. IP: Logged |
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tkelly5 Member Posts: 7 |
posted 30 January 2008 08:18 PM
Thanks Tom, I appreciate sharing the knowledge, Stone Forts - thanks IP: Logged |
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enfield Moderator Posts: 483 |
posted 30 January 2008 08:24 PM
I always fight the urge to speculate or guess as some people accept guesses as fact, state them as such and others quote them as established facts which can lead to corruption. Wikipaedia is full of it. If I have not found it recorded in a book on Irish Placenames I give you the broken down Angicised wordings as previously found in them. Please do not ask me to speculate, I just give you what I have found. Facts are facts and not peoples opinions of them. Donovan was criticised for it as was P.W.Joyce and I consider them the one eyed men in a world of the blind. Regards. Tom. IP: Logged |
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tkelly5 Member Posts: 7 |
posted 30 January 2008 08:40 PM
I agree with your approach Tom, I do alot of genealogical research, and it crushes me when other researchers make "guestimates" based on everything but the sourced record, and then it propagates into the 'ol story of a story of a story.' A great case in point is your tagname - Enfield. I've been researching the origins of the mythical monster the Enfield, and what it is actually supposed to be comprised of, and every web site, including wikipedia, has a different version. I have made some great progress with older printed sources, however. Not sure if you are interested in that, though. Could take off-line so not to waste post space if interested. TK IP: Logged |
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enfield Moderator Posts: 483 |
posted 31 January 2008 07:00 AM
Tom. I adoped for the username Enfield because I lived there at the time in Co Meath. Enfield, An Bóthar Buí, the yellow road. Originally it was called Innfield or the Inn by the field and changed by the railway company to Enfield. Regards. Tom. IP: Logged |
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tkelly5 Member Posts: 7 |
posted 20 March 2009 05:57 PM
Hello Enfield and fellow posters, thanks for your help. It appears I have struck Gold on the final answer to this post. The NLI has made avaialable an series of transcribed 1835 books for Leitrim, Cavan, and Fermanagh by the antiquarian J. O'Donavon. He recorded the traditional place names of most every townland in these counties, their anglicized versions, and where they appear in various maps of the period. I thought I'd share to close up the loose end... Thanks again great site... Source: O’Donovans Name Books DRUMCASHLAGH Drumcashlagh -- J.O’D. Situated on the Southern end of the Parish and is bounded by Corderry and Cloonagh on North, and Creagh on West, Lisgavneen on South, and Treendollagh on West. Sheets 15, 17. This Townland belongs to Montgomery Esq. (sic) held under a deed for ever, it contains a r p and is all but about 20 acres under cultivation.
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tkelly5 Member Posts: 7 |
posted 20 March 2009 06:13 PM
Of course, nothing ever being settled, I found a scanned 1853 Dictionary of Gaelic Language by Norman Macleod, Daniel Dewar. p.111 Caisleach, -ich, s. f. A Ford; a footpath; a smooth place. IP: Logged |
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enfield Moderator Posts: 483 |
posted 20 March 2009 07:22 PM
Thank you for your posting tkelly. Kind regards. Tom. IP: Logged |
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